Said he'll make a descision on Mangini on monday when he's meeting with him, said he's been working had and it might be unfair to fire him after one season.

Hiring a GM next year as well.

Repeating again, it's not good to pull someone after one year in terms of something like being a coach or even a quarterback.

Said Mangini sent him some film on Quinn. (he let that slip)

What do you mean next year?

In a week or in 53 weeks?

My interpretation of his tone and words and everything is that he' leaning towards keeping EM. Based on language alone I would say it's 50/50.

In a week. Already has a list put together, but said he can't call anyone for a bit.

My interpretation of his tone and words and everything is that he' leaning towards keeping EM. Based on language alone I would say it's 50/50.

Based on the presser I'd say that's about right. He may just be taking the PC road and not throwing Mangini under the bus before the season's over, especially because a lot of the newsie-types have been saying Mangini's gone. But judging from the presser alone it sounded like he'd like to give Mangini another year.

Blah blah blah Fixed Noise type take RK.

What do YOU take away?

I heard a few "Eric and I believe"s.

I go 75 / 25

I just listened to it and my thoughts are opposite.

I think Mangini is toast, it''ll be announced Monday evening, he's gone.

Weird this is by phone.

Why Yogi?

I agree with JB. I think Mangini stays and Holmgren and his new GM mitigate the footprint EM has on the org as a whole.

But that might be personal bias as to why I agree that he's staying. I admit I went back and forth while listening trying to get a clue as to what he would do with EM but in the end I think MH thinks Mangini is a bright, hard working dude who's gotten the team to play hard and respond.

I may be way off so I'd like to understand why you think the other way. Something or some way Holmgren responded in particular or just a general feeling that Holmgren doesn't want to start with someone he didn't necessarily want to begin with.

I can see it. Their philosophies are different.

But I don't feel it.

So it certainly does look like he's made a decision. If he's going to keep Mangini on, why not announce it now? Why wait until after the season?

OfficialBrowns
Audio of the Holmgren conference call: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/multimed ... hp?id=6662

I have been wondering the same thing. The only logical answer I could think of is Holmgren really wants to keep Mangini on. He isnt sure if Mangini will want to stay after he hears the Holmgren plan. So he is going to sit down with Mangini and tell him how its going to be and who goes if Mangini doesnt agree or want a part in Holmgrens new plan he will be shown the door.

...."I know this, that it's very, very important to have your quarterback play well to be successful," Holmgren said. "If you looked around the league everyone knows that. In fairness to Brady and to Derek and to any quarterbacks with the Browns, it's too early for me to comment on that.

"I'm not going to be the coach, but I am going to work very, very closely with the coach on personnel. Eric shares my views on how important the quarterback position is for any team. That's what we have to do. We have to be tough in some ways. We have to be honest about it. If we think we have the quarterback there that can take us where we want to go, fine. If we don't, then we have to do something about it. We have not made that decision yet."

Quick timeout here, thought this on the drive in this morning...

Walrus says he's going to bring in a GM, check. Wouldn't the traditional order of operations dictate that front office staff is built from the top down? A true President brings in a GM before making a decision on Mangini, and that GM should have a stronger voice and accountability in that decision. What I see as more likely is Holmgren openly diminishing GM on the org chart to the same level of the Head Coach.

Titles are tricky, but they are important organizationally due to the level of accountability each title holds. How he sets things up is important to me as a fan, as this organization has struggled with structure (see Kokinis). If the decision on HC is Holmgren's alone, he should change his title to President/GM. That way the faux GM can concentrate on his real job, picking up Holmgren's dry cleaning and being The Turk.

It's a question of Holmgren's preference of a vertical vs. horizontal hierarchy in Berea. Again, I don't see Whiskers allowing his "GM" to have the same decision making power as they might elsewhere, which should direct his hiring process toward a personell director type, not someone who is responsible for watching over the HC's actions. Why not just name a Director of Personell instead of naming a GM, a title that implies hire/fire power over HC?

I agree that this is a newer structure in a sense, but one I would agree with. I like the setup where a GM does not have hire/fire HC capability in cases where a credible admininstrator oversees both. I don't eniterly see what would qualify alot of GM's to make that decision intellegently anyways. You certainly are not going to be able to convince me that a GM we bring in can better assess the performance of the HC over Holmgren.

Holmgren didn't hesitate to state just how important the QB is to the success of the team so I think that he will insist on a QB can run his offense and I don't think we have that player on the roster right now.

JMHO but, I think he has to identify why this team didn't play as hard out of the gate as it is now and if he determines that its because of Mangini's head games at the start and being force fed youthful legs at the end of a failed season then I say he's toast.

I also think its a stretch to believe that a control freak like Mangini is suddenly going to be a cooperative round little yes man. He'll have to totally remake himself from the lying little back stabber that he is at his core.

I'm not getting how a coaching change sets the team back any either.....its not like they're that far along that it would be an inconvenience, especially when taking into consideration the roster turnover that will take place in 2010 in addition to other coaching changes.

I just don't see Mangini changing his belief system to suit his new boss. I love how the team has performed down the stretch, but I don't think it matters. We don't need a HC and team President butting heads on every important decision. I just think this would be a good marriage.

Mangini may step down rather than live under the Walrus' rule.

Thanks for your thoughts. But I'm more interested in MH's. He didnt give a clue as to what he thought. He will be evaluating. One we thing all know, both QBs performed worse this year than last. Why?

Since you are pounding the QB drum so hard...let's assume that DA is gone and Quinn is deemed a backup at best by Holmgren. So what will he likely do?

Holmgren has quite a QB pedigree behind him. Young in SF, Favre in GB, and Hasselbeck in SEA. All three of these guys were traded to the team that Holmgren coached, and I'd assume that at least Favre and Hasselbeck were hand picked by him.

So the Walrus' history suggests he looks around the league and trades for a QB, instead of burning a first rounder on one.

Here were some possibilities from known WCO systems.

SEA? - Holmgren's system. Could Holmgren look to Hasselbeck as his QB of the future? Don't see it. 34 years old and has dropped out of the upper echelon of QBs. What about Seneca Wallace? Possible. His QB rating for the last 3 years is about 90, and he's been in Tuna's system his entire career.

PHI? - Reid is a Holmgren disciple. No way McNabb goes anywhere. Kevin Kolb would be the obvious target for a Tuna makeover. He's young, has decent size, and is well-versed in a west coast offense. But with Vick likely being released, Kolb moves back into the number 2 slot. Vick maybe? Before you scoff, Vick is looking for a starting gig again, and with some exposure to the WCO, he gets a leg up on those that haven't. Running QBs talents are maximized in the WCO. Unfortunately, the Dawg Pound/Vick issues are obvious and daunting, so maybe Tuna doesn't have the balls to make this kind of move. Vick also struggled mightily with the WCO when he was first exposed to it in ATL.

GB? - Assume that GB still runs a version of the WCO. This makes the backup Matt Flynn a possible target. Don't know much about him, but Aaron Rodgers will be the starting QB for the next 10+ years in GB.

MIN? - No. There isn't anyone behind Favre ready to take over a team or they'd be running it right now

I think Aaron Rodgers is a great example of a prototypical WCO. He led NFL QBs by a wide margin in rushing yardage (314), and has been pretty accurate throwing the ball to the tune of a 64% completion average and 102.4 QB rating. So who is the most like Aaron Rodgers in this years' draft?

I'd guess Colt McCoy, but given Holmgren's history of trading for a QB, I think he looks elsewhere first.

He started out in SF where he came in to coach Montana but even with a HOF QB that team used a first round pick to trade for Young.

Then in Seattle the first move he made was to trade a first round pick for Hassleback.

Quinn has all the necessities to be successful at being a WC QB except accuracy part....

Of course thats big, but is it correctable?

..... and my take on the HC, is Mangini sleeps with da fishes.

Is there any other neccesity for a WC QB? Not really....

Setting aside the question of whether he has ENOUGH accuracy, what inaccurate NFL QB have you ever seen drastically improve in the area?

Hasn't this always been your take? Doesn't sound like that has anything at all to do with the press conferance. You called it a read between the lines type feel, but it seems lot more like you ignored the presser completely and stuck with what you aready had thought.

Glad you are not judging QBs.

Reading defense, getting the right call made, audibles, leadership



Eli Manning, Steve Young, there are others Im sure. The question is, is there anything causing the inaccuracy that can be corrected. Every QB has a WTF throw, saw Cutler overthrow a wide open WR last night and he's one of the most accurate in the game.



Yeah, its been my take for the last 2 days, since I heard the press conference. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else.

I don't agree. Mangini knows if he loses this HC job he may not get another one- and if he does get one, it'll likely be under the watchful eye of a front office that checks him on personnel. Certainly he'll never again be in a situation where an owner like Randy just tosses him the keys and tells him to have fun.

My gut tells me Mangini will do whatever he needs to do to keep this gig- especially since the fruits of his labor are starting to be borne out. He doesn't want to midwife this baby then just hand it over to someone else.

Yogi do you think Quinn fits in with, Montana, Young, Farve, Hassleback? That is the group of NFL QBs that Holmgren has worked with in the past and all of those quarterbacks have the Super Bowl on their resume.

You think that we have a QB that fits in with that group?

Concur.

Mangini's next stop is NCAA D 3 if he fails here.

Depends on what stage in their careers. To various degrees Favre and Young were considered flops by their first teams. Recall Glanville ridiculed Favre as a rookie. Hasselback was a non-descript project, Montana a 3rd round pick.

So yeah, they all started in a dog house of some degree.

I think all Walru's comments reflect is that the QB is not going to be considered a cog, but the centerpiece of the team. Whoever ends up here isn't going to be asked to manage game. He'll be asked to win them.

Depends on what stage in their careers. To various degrees Favre and Young were considered flops by their first teams. Recall Glanville ridiculed Favre as a rookie. Hasselback was a non-descript project, Montana a 3rd round pick.

So yeah, they all started in a dog house of some degree.

I think all Walru's comments reflect is that the QB is not going to be considered a cog, but the centerpiece of the team. Whoever ends up here isn't going to be asked to manage game. He'll be asked to win them.

Debbie Downer told me to remember that 2011 is looking like a year without NFL football. Much can change between now and then, but would Holmgren really want to get rid of Mangini asap without a top notch replacement when all hell is going to break loose (possibly) with an uncapped 2010 and a lockout in 2011?

The most important Holmgren can do asap is find a good GM and someone who really understands what the end of the current CBA really means.

Maybe it has no bearing on Our Town at the end of 2009. But I think it might.